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 Post subject: MILSIG Elite
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:07 pm 
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Location: FT.Hood TX
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Before you read this review (if you don’t know already) MILSIG is a sponsor of Milsim Empire. Of which I am co owner. I feel a responsibility to point that out up front. That said, you have my word that I was as objective and fair as I know how to be.


I wrote this review as I learned and experienced the gun. My intention is for the review to read like a log of events, so that the reader has a sense of the experience I went through.
I hope this was accomplished and that you come away with a clear understanding of how the product performed for me.

Initial impressions


Day 1
Everything packaged in a very nice looking MILSIG metal gun case (not standard packaging) Gun looks great, feels solid in the hands, nothing creaks or rattles a good sign!

Quick Notes:

Very sturdy, all hardware seems to be hardened steel. Magazine is solid,
Trigger guard is metal; H&K sights are a nice touch. Fluted barrel very nice,
Everything is solid and well made.

Slight movement in the mag when it’s engaged, but it’s in there and secure. Mag seems more than tough enough to be used as a vert grip (my preferred method)
Magazines seem solid and tough enough to survive some abuse. Winding mechanism ratchets in place as you turn a small wheel, which in turn produces a pleasing “click” Components in the mag at least sound and feel well made. Two Phillips screws counter sunk in the side of the mag wall indicate that magazines can be opened and parts replaced.
G36 style opaque mags not as see through as I thought, probably won't paint them, they look pretty good as is.
Mags fit perfectly into my chest rig, not nearly as oversized as I imagined, probably pretty close to actual size.
However when the feed neck detent is depressed, the balls will fall out. Need to come up with something to get around that.

Brackets that hold the handguards and stock asa adapter are hardened steel, very solid. Folding vert grip very tough, I prefer this type of grip so I am happy that it came standard with the Elite.
Extended mag release is an excellent feature. Being a lefty I don’t need it, but with the magwell and the grip frame separated by the vert asa, it is needed for a rightie.

The whole gun feels rugged, with good weight in the hands and the familiar feel of a weapon. There is allot of potential here.

Trigger has a stock feel to it, I’d like less travel until the sear trips, could be a bit crisper, easy to tighten that up though.
Charging handle to the rear (I like that), MP5 style, metal which is good. I might look to mod this in the future to something a little bigger. Ambi charging handle? (Nelson, put down the coffee get on it)
An M-16 style charging handle would be killer.
Grip/trigger assembly sturdy high impact plastic, a 416 style grip would really look great.
Appears that you can take off the MILSIG logo on the left side of the gun, perhaps mount a rail there?
So far I am impressed.

Functions check with CO2: No leaks detected. Put 18 rounds through one mag with no problems. Used very, very old paint and still no breaks.
Even with terrible paint, a decent group at 72ft with the rifled barrel. Need to chrono and put a couple thousand rounds down range with both barrels before I will really be satisfied.


Day 2

I tested the rifled barrel with an 88g and stock attached. I was using cheap Visible Impact paint. The rifled barrel still produced decent groups at 72ft.
I suspect larger bore paint needed, and higher quality paint is a given.

Thoughts: I like the 88g so far, not having a bottle attached or remote line gives the gun a much truer feel.
A 13ci HPA tank will need to be tested; a HPA hand pump will need to be tested also.

The smooth bore ported barrel produced slightly better groups at 72ft with the same paint. Still need a friggin chrono!
I noticed that the paint on the MILSIG logo (magazine well) started to ware off. I like to use the mag well as a vert grip. Not particularly worried about it, MILSIG might be interested to know that though.

The only thing I don't like about the 88g is that with asa adapter it would seem to add perhaps 4 inches of length to the gun. I'll need to order one of MILSIG's cool stocks to really get a feel for a shorter setup.
Their commando style handguards would shorten up the gun also. I look forward to trying one.

Came up with a simple fix for the mag problem (balls coming out) Used one of my wifes hair bands wrapped around the feed neck so the detent can’t depress in my mag pouch. Seems to work pretty well. I can then flick them off with one hand.


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There are several air options that can be had for this marker. I am currently considering the 13ci or 5oz co2 bottles with stocks. I like the idea of both these systems because it makes the gun completely independent of remote lines and large tanks. However, overall esthetics is slightly degraded with the oversized stock.
Tomorrow I am going to head to the local field and chrono the Elite.


Left the 88g gram hooked up all night with no leaks detected

Day 3

Bought a Chrono, the small handheld type that you hang on the barrel. Local field didn’t want to open their chrono station just for me on a Thursday.

Tested and Chrono’d on HPA. First test was done with an empty 88g in the stock and using a remote in the vert asa behind the magwell. I routinely shot in the 280’s – 290’s but then had drops into the 260’s every few shots. Using an empty 88g as an expansion chamber is probably better served with CO2. Changed out the asa. Took off the stock, and hooked up the air again to the rear asa. The Elite shot 292 – 299, consistently (not too shabby).
I started out with the velocity screw all the way open. It seemed to need a couple of turns before I noticed a consistent drop in velocity. Pretty much the same as my stock A-5.

Note: When taking off the mag release to change out the asa on the underside of the gun, be sure to do so on a surface where if you drop something it is easily seen. Screws all have lock washers and small washers to protect the plastic/polymer parts. I do like the fact that everything is so solid with allen bolts. However, more attention to detail is needed during maintenance.

Later today or tomorrow I’ll chrono with 88g tanks

Note: I expected the marker to shoot allot hotter out of the box than it did. This may be a factory safety standard, but probably due to the small paint I am using, in fact I am certain it’s the paint, I can see light around the PB in the barrel.

All in all a good test, no leaks, no breaks, no chops. Mags performed without any problems.

Day 4

Chrono’d and tested the 88g until I exhausted the usuable CO2. I was quite surprised and impressed that I was able to shoot 9 mags on one 88g. I started with the velocity screw all the way open. Initial velocities never went above 305, but were consistently between 280-300. I consider that acceptable for a pre-charged CO2 tank and without running an expansion chamber. The first 5 mags were all in the initial range. By the sixth, velocities dropped off to the 270-285 range. 7 and 8 were consistently in the 255-270 range. The first three shots on the 9th were in the 240 range and then velocities dropped rapidly from there. I would say the last 6 shots were all under 100fps. At my 72ft target with the cheap Visible Impact paint, trajectory only really suffered on the last mag. Of course at longer ranges this would have been more pronounced, and on a soft target balls may not have broken on the bottom half of mag 8, it’s tough to say.
That said though, I feel confident that 8 mags (144 shots) can be shot effectively, and would have been effective in just about any situation that you would find yourself in. For this test the temperature was 91F, there was only a slight breeze, perhaps 3 miles an hour with 32% humidity. Weather Data was taking from the weather channel. The 88g cartridges were Crossman brand and purchased from Walmart. I think the price was about $9.50 for two.

In conclusion on today’s test, I am quite satisfied using an 88g cartridge. I should easily be able to get through my compliment of 7 mags in most weather conditions that I would experience in Texas. Using the smooth bore Elite barrel and the same paint as in today’s test, I was able to empty one full magazine (18rnds) and score roughly a 9in group at 102ft (that’s all in the chest with terrible paint). That is to say, the large mass of paint was about 9in across at its furthest point. Actual impact points were closer. I attached a Harris bipod and shot this group from the prone position. I was satisfied with that considering the paint is smaller than recommended for this barrel. Velocity for that group was set at a field standard 285, or as close at I could come to that with three shots on the Chrono.

Day 5
I did a partial breakdown of the gun and managed to nick two small O rings at the end of the high pressure air line.

Image


There was a slight leak as a result but I fixed it for the time being with a bit of Teflon tape. I recommended to MILSIG that they add a few O rings of this type to each Elite as these aren’t a common size.

The internals of the Elite are similar to the A-5, however MILSIG has made a metal power tube standard in its guns, and the Elite also has a metal air nozzel. The MILSIG powertube also has an extra air intake on the side of the marker, which allows the user additional air mounting options such as the 88g stock, and stock with rear ASA adaptor. I noticed that there was almost no over spray inside the receiver halves, a nod for attention to detail. MILSIG states that ach MILSIG receiver half is specifically paired with the other half for the best fitting. The receivers are also acid dipped, and polished after painting. As I noted before, if your going break your Elite down, do it somewhere were you won’t lose small items. All the bolts have lock washers and small shims. The two bolts that hold the handguards brackets in place had two shims each.
One must be careful when removing the bolts as the shims fall out as you retract the bolt from the receiver

Image

Day 6

I broke down the marker completely. Some people might question why this wasn’t the first step. My answer would be that if your going to invest allot of money into a gun, it ought to be ready to rock right out of the box. There is a responsibility to read the manual, and make sure that you operate the marker safely, but beyond that I refuse to check every O ring, nut and bolt before I take out a gun and use it. That IMO is the manufacturer’s job, MILSIG delivers in this respect. If you don’t demand high quality you probably won’t get it.

Break down was not particularly difficult, but slightly more time consuming than with your standard A-5. That said, I think the extra security that the brackets and bolts provide is more than worth it. Everything is rock solid, and it is difficult to imagine a situation where either the stock or handguard could break off.

Note: From the factory all the bolts are quite tight. I recommend loosening the nut first with the provided wrench. This way you won’t have any slippage with the allen wrench.
Simply insert the allen wrench on one side, the wrench on the other and loosen the nut.
Then you can back out the bolt very easily.



Day 7

I broke down the magazine just to take a look inside. The feed neck pops right out for repair or replacement if needed, and the winding mechanism looks as if it can be taken out fairly easily. All in all a pretty simple setup inside. Putting everything back together is a simple task. However, you have to get the cord that winds onto the drum back in a small recess. There is a small cut recess in one of the mag halves, and the string must sit in it. Otherwise when you tighten everything up the mag won’t wind. You can just see the recess in this picture on the left side, at the top of the spring channel. I found hooking a small allen wrench around the cord and popping it into the recess as I closed the mag, worked pretty well.

Image


Mag walls are sturdy impact resistant type plastic, and should take a fair amount of beating. All the inner components are either aluminum like the drum, or steel like the ratcheting mechanism. I can’t envision many problems with these mags. The string might ware over time and need replacement, and maybe the spring, but I would think only after several thousand rounds.

After my first week with the Elite I am extremely impressed. I can’t really find anything wrong with it to write about. The O rings on the high pressure airline might cause some problems if you’re not careful. But with a little care (what I should of done) and some spares you will never have a problem. The sear could be a bit crisper but it’s a paintball marker not a Weatherby, so I have no issue with that. Maybe I should leave it in the bathtub overnight? Drive over it with my car?



Day 8

I started off today with a magazine drop test. Nothing particularly crazy, I wanted to see if the mag would survive a reasonable drop onto concrete. For this test I simply held the gun into my shoulder and released the magazine. I performed this test three times. Each time the mag fell pretty much on the same corner. This was the result.

Image

I then filled the mag will paintballs and emptied it without any problems. You can see that the impact caused the edge to dent. You might think that’s a bad thing, but I would submit that the plastic performed as it should. The plastic absorbed the impact without cracking and left a slight blemish but a perfectly working magazine. It’s possible that you might drop a mag onto a hard surface, but unlikely that you would do it three times one after another. So I feel confident that these magazines can survive a reasonable amount of punishment. I recommend that you only buy mags from certified MILSIG dealers as there are some Chinese copies out there. Opaque mags are all 2007 and newer.


Conclusions

This gun is a tank with almost zero vices. Its only chink if you can call it that, are the two small O rings on the HPA line. If MILSIG will send a small bag of these with each gun, i can't see it being much of an issue.
Out of the box it rocks even with bad paint. That my friend’s is the mark of quality. When you pay $600 for anything, it ought to work, first time out of the box, no questions asked. The stock barrel needs big bore paint, but, it’s still fairly tolerant of smaller caliber paint balls. I wish I had some large bore paint, but it would have taken too much time to order it and I wanted to get this review finished. My intention was not to write a technical article on ballistics anyway, just a Milsim players interpretation of a product.
MILSIG is doing great things, and I believe they know what we want as Milsim PB players. You could count the K series platform as their opening shot to the Milsim PB community. We have seen the GEN’s, but there is something different here, a refocus, a new attitude. Whatever you want to call it, MILSIG put out a solid product with the Elite. It is rugged, it is simple, and it works. There isn’t much more a Milsim player needs.

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Last edited by SRTsniper on Wed May 21, 2008 10:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:23 pm 
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That is the best review I have read in awhile. Nice job!

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:00 pm 
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Very detailed and thorough. Great Job SRT! :thumbsup:

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“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:19 pm 
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Great Review, all I needed to know in one great post.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:16 am 
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Generals
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Bravo. Nice one SRT. What about a pic of the actual gun??
James

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:25 am 
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Very nice review. I would love to see a Mag-style marker upclose. Being new to pb, I am sure it would be amazing.

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:03 am 
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Just for you James i went out into the backyard and took a couple of pics. Wish i hadn't gotten the hose in the background but you can't have everything.

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Last edited by SRTsniper on Thu May 22, 2008 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 11:18 am 
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Nice marker!!!
James

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:01 pm 
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Nice Aimpoint too ;)

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“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:15 pm 
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Those H&K sites are SWEET too!! I may have to get those to....the list just keeps getting bigger and bigger :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:34 pm 
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Wow - That looks great! I would love to try one.

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:53 pm 
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Awesome review! This makes me want to take my T68 gen2 throw it in the trash and get a Milsig.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:00 pm 
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Cheers lads. The Aimpoint is real, nothing but the best :) The cantilever mount on top of the riser is perfect clearance.

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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:34 pm 
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I've taken Dan's recommendation and will include 10 spare o-rings when Elites begin shipping to the USA.

An ambi cocking handle is in the works. I managed to break one of the metal ones during a CQB game after I banged the marker against the wall. We're contemplating making a spring folding one...think of the G3 series cocking handle.

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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 8:59 pm 
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Did I miss how many shots off the tank in the stock?


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